Stuff White People Say

November 17, 2008

“Where does the hate come from” Part II

Filed under: Uncategorized — jwbe @ 9:25 pm

A short answer would be: It comes from the myth of a superior white race together with the myth of a superior Western culture. The Western culture considers itself as progressive which has contributed most to the civilization of humans. It dismisses the contributions of other cultures and entirely dismisses the destructive nature of Western culture, including nuclear weapons and destroying all natural resources.

Whites as a collective can consider Western culture as tolerant and peaceful which has to be protected against the “uncivilized others”.
I think the question is legitimate: What is wrong with white people?

And the next question is: Why can’t we see? Why do we as the European/white collective perpetuate the lie that it is just about some hate-mongers? Why can’t we see what “just some hate-mongers” did in our white history, followed and supported by the majority of white people.

There is an article which also talks about white people’s perception of “their country” lost now because of the election of Obama.

How can a people, white Americans, who are not only the most powerful people within America but also globally, actually feel that way? How can a people so easily be scared?
And what happend to white people as a collective back in history that we created a culture with which we set us above all others and also above ‘god’. What happend back in history that we left the path of humanity to conquer the world and the universe, lost every sense of reality or respect towards life.
What exactly do we think we can preserve?

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24 Comments »

  1. Ever heard of the book, “Iceman Inheritance : Prehistoric Sources of Western Man’s Racism, Sexism and Aggression”? I’ve read passages from it a long time ago and from the little I read and from things I’ve heard about the book, it lays out some interesting theories. Just theories from what I know…
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1879831007/ref=cm_rdp_product

    I don’t know if anyone has ever made a definitive, compelling case.

    Comment by nquest2xl — November 17, 2008 @ 10:45 pm | Reply

  2. thank you, no, I don’t know the book. I will look that I get it here in G.

    Comment by jwbe — November 17, 2008 @ 11:42 pm | Reply

  3. Also, you’d think White anti-racist and those who claim their focus is Whiteness would (1) be asking these questions and (2) seeking the answers and/or trying to treat/deal with the problem.

    Comment by nquest2xl — November 18, 2008 @ 2:06 am | Reply

  4. Maybe the Whites who say these things forget that a lot of this country was built on slave labor and not the backs of their White forefathers. However, many don’t think about this because of the fact that Blacks are never mentioned in history as having a contribution to the country. Their White slavemasters are given all the credit even though they didn’t do anything.

    Plus, the US is just plain cocky. They feel like they can do what they want and tell other countries what to do. I don’t get that…I thought there was a war here because people her got tired of a rich White guy across the ocean telling them what to do but, hey, I guess that’s cool if they are the rich White guy in charge.

    I don’t know what made people decide that since Obama was elected it was okay to start committing hate crimes. I’ve been trying to figure it out.

    Comment by Melissa — November 18, 2008 @ 4:20 am | Reply

  5. >Also, you’d think White anti-racist and those who claim their focus is Whiteness would (1) be asking these questions and (2) seeking the answers and/or trying to treat/deal with the problem.

    true. The question why is rarely asked.
    and OT: I can’t change my avatar:-(

    Comment by jwbe — November 18, 2008 @ 2:23 pm | Reply

  6. “A short answer would be: It comes from the myth of a superior white race together with the myth of a superior Western culture. The Western culture considers itself as progressive which has contributed most to the civilization of humans. It dismisses the contributions of other cultures and entirely dismisses the destructive nature of Western culture, including nuclear weapons and destroying all natural resources.”

    White people’s belief in the supremacy of their “civilization” (and I use this term loosely here) is based upon a fundamental geopolitical reality: 500 years of continuing Western Imperialism.

    As the West raped, pillaged, and colonized the world during the so-called “Age of Discovery,” it also needed to rationalize this conquest culturally and politically. Hence, the spawning of the West’s fanatical belief in its own superiority–and thus the West’s God-given right to impose its civilization on the “savage natives.”

    This was called the Western Civilizing Mission or White Man’s Burden.

    This reality has not changed. It’s only more disguised today. Instead of spreading Christianity or civilization to the benighted non-White savage, the West claims to be spreading democracy, freedom, and human rights.

    In fact, “promoting democracy” has become the post-modern version of the Western Civilizing Mission, and it’s just as brutal and sadistic as older forms of Western colonial crusades.

    Just check out America’s genocidal war and destruction of Iraq (or Afghanistan) to find out what this new version of the White Boy’s Burden is all about.

    Comment by Lxy — November 18, 2008 @ 3:53 pm | Reply

  7. >White people’s belief in the supremacy of their “civilization” (and I use this term loosely here) is based upon a fundamental geopolitical reality: 500 years of continuing Western Imperialism

    This doesn’t answer the question for me. Why are many whites able to rationalize? Where doesn this come from?

    Comment by jwbe — November 18, 2008 @ 4:01 pm | Reply

  8. I would say that Whites are able to rationalize because the alternative is *intolerable* for them.

    Essentially, they would have to admit that everything they believe about “Western Civilization” and ultimately about themselves as a people is a massive bloody lie–a civilizational lie.

    What happens when an angel discovers that it’s really a devil in disguise?

    It would be morally and spiritually devastating for them.

    Also, Western imperialism is not just an economic, military, or political issue. It’s also cultural and ideological. Most Whites have been socialized to believe in this Western imperial system culturally and ideologically.

    It’s always much easier to go along with the system and rationalize it than take the “red pill” so to speak.

    Comment by Lxy — November 18, 2008 @ 4:20 pm | Reply

  9. >I would say that Whites are able to rationalize because the alternative is *intolerable* for them.

    But there must be a beginning of it. The question, why Europeans did what they did and still do it. How does it work to rationalize to a level that one is no longer able? to realize somebody as human.
    Or is it actually the fear to be exterminated as a race?

    Comment by jwbe — November 18, 2008 @ 4:31 pm | Reply

  10. >>I would say that Whites are able to rationalize because the alternative is *intolerable* for them.

    >But there must be a beginning of it. The question, why Europeans did what they did and still do it. How does it work to rationalize to a level that one is no longer able? to realize somebody as human.
    Or is it actually the fear to be exterminated as a race?

    How does any group rationalize killing another group? To perpetuate the racism or belief you are better than another group, such as we had in the US during slavery and segregation in the twentieth century, the people in power have to believe they are justified in this because they are better. I don’t know how or where that idea starts, though.

    jwbe, you are German, right? Does this question come up there in regards to Nazis? I think it must be the same mindset as they had to try to exterminate Jews and many other groups that was in the US to justify slavery. I remember seeing this documentary with pictures of people in charge at a concentration camp and it showed pictures of people on a picnic and eating berries and it was just so *normal* that it’s weird to think someone so seemingly normal can do something so horrible. Maybe we are too far away from the start of the beliefs we can’t figure out where and why the started. Maybe we can’t figure it out because if we are here on this blog, we are asking the why.

    Comment by Melissa — November 18, 2008 @ 6:05 pm | Reply

  11. I don’t confine it to some individuals, there is a cultural basis which makes it possible to create slaveowners or Nazis. It is a collective mind-set of the Western world. I consider (Neo-)Nazis etc as those whites who speak most openly about the belief system of Eurocentrism, therefore there is no way for any ordinary white to separate himself from ‘white supremacists’. They are the most visible mirror of our culture.
    The question “why” Nazi-Germany was possible is often asked here, without a real answer. The mind-set of pre-Nazi Germany was a German mindset humilated because of WWI and a ruined economy.

    Comment by jwbe — November 18, 2008 @ 6:33 pm | Reply

  12. Here is an article that might address the possible reasons why Whites rationalize their (implicit) belief in Western supremacy. The author suggests that White racism is dervived from European Christianity’s idea of the religious Select and later the scientific racism of the Enlightenment:

    So what is the ideology of racism and what does it depend on that makes it so effective?

    Predictably, religion played a major role in the creation of the ideology of racism and specifically, European Christianity.

    The idea that we are not all God’s children by reason of different belief systems was the starting point. Ergo, if you are not one of God’s children then you are less than human.

    It follows therefore that such creatures are not bound by our laws, they are little more than animals, or at best ‘children’ and hence do not fall under the protection of ‘God’s’ laws, they can be exploited just like any other product of Nature.

    But it was to get much, much worse when ‘science’ entered the picture, after all, who can argue with ‘science’? The rationalizations followed on, thick and fast.

    Its roots can be traced directly back to the so-called Age of Enlightenment in the 17th century and its ‘Rationalism’ that quickly degenerated into rationalization. There followed three centuries in which to create an entire ‘science’ of racial superiority, one that reached its peak in the 19th and early 20th centuries, with all kinds of crackpot ideas based on such things as skull size and alleged measurements of ‘intelligence’ that we have inherited as the loathsome IQ ‘test’.

    http://www.creative-i.info/?p=2196

    The point that I particularly take from all this is that racist White Supremacy is not only a question of stereotypical attitudes or even institutionalized discrimination–as many “anti-racist activists” define the problem today. It goes beyond these things and ultimately reflects fundamental, core values of Western Civilization for at least a half millennium.

    That’s the nature of this beast.

    Comment by Lxy — November 19, 2008 @ 2:31 am | Reply

  13. Another thing that occured to me on this was that it probably ties into greed. More land, more riches, more power. Columbus’ attitudes changed between when he landed and met the indigenous people and when the second voyage was launched.
    Salvery was influenced by greed. Plantations would not have been profitable without cheap or free labor. Look at how many plantations went bankrupt after the Civil War when they had to actually pay people to work.
    And I do agree that a corruption of European Christianity (probably also a lack of access to the Bible) led to slavery. Ignoring the fact that God created all humans or believing that certain races were better allowed Whites to feel superior. Silly, really. It’s not like the Africans they enslaved weren’t favorably mentioned in the Bible.
    The language barrier probably didn’t help. With no way to communicate between the majority of different races means they can’t understand each other. Europeans couldn’t see how intelligent the people they looked down on really were.
    I know it still doesn’t really answer the exactly how and were someone could start believing this. I don’t know if we can easily find that point.

    Comment by Melissa — November 19, 2008 @ 3:03 pm | Reply

  14. I’ve been thinking about the whole Christianity-Eurocentrism connection, and realized that the “New Atheism” is the heir to the old white Western supremacist Christianity.

    Contemporary anti-religionism in the West still divides people into “civilized” and “savages,” and the “savages” are pretty much the same as before (in other words, dark-complexioned people in other countries that still worship God, especially the Middle East), as are the “civilized” (white wealthy Westerners). The only difference is in the relations among the upper echelons of the hierarchy. White Christian conservatives are stigmatized under this new Eurocentric model, and encouraged to convert to White Atheist libertarians or liberals, rather than the other way around as under the old system. Gays are not heavily scapegoated under scientisitc-atheistic Eurocentrism, and women still have freedoms, but gender is essentialized and women and men are told that 1950s sex/gender relations are our genetic predisposition from caveman times (which is kind of an updated, less strict version of using the Bible to justify sex/gender hierarchies).

    Meet the new Eurocentrism, same as the old Eurocentrism. Christianity was the host for the Eurocentric colonialistic virus, and it has passed this virus on to contemporary anti-religious movements. Religion is not the root of all social evils. Bigotry is. And scientisitic atheism is not free from bigotry – at least, not in practice.

    Comment by space — November 19, 2008 @ 9:29 pm | Reply

  15. @Lxy
    >It goes beyond these things and ultimately reflects fundamental, core values of Western Civilization for at least a half millennium.

    Seems that I can get the book Nquest mentioned here in Germany, so I will tell.

    @Melissa
    >And I do agree that a corruption of European Christianity (probably also a lack of access to the Bible) led to slavery.

    what do you mean with that?

    @Space
    Atheism in it’s core is nothing else than non-believing in the existence of God(s).
    I also think that what you call the “New Atheism” and anti-religionism is American and not Western, or what do you mean exactly?

    Comment by jwbe — November 19, 2008 @ 10:23 pm | Reply

  16. @Melissa
    >>And I do agree that a corruption of European Christianity (probably also a lack of access to the Bible) led to slavery.

    >what do you mean with that?

    I mean that, as a Christian, true Christianity doesn’t teach the things that people used to justify slavery. Yes, slave are mentioned in the Bible but it wasn’t a slavery of one race over another. It was generally people of the same race and strict laws were in place about how to treat slaves and they were to be released at some point (during certain festivals). Also, the fact that as slavery and the US were coming up, the Bible wasn’t freely avaiable for the population of Europe to read themselves. They relied on what the church leaders told them.

    Comment by Melissa — November 19, 2008 @ 10:29 pm | Reply

  17. The “New Atheism” is not just American. Richard Dawkins is a Brit IIRC, and he’s one of its main “priests.”

    I’m not saying that atheism as a whole is Eurocentric, just that the most high-profile political manifestations of it have inherited the flaws of the old-time religion. Probably in part because anti-religionism is a reaction against the old Christianity. I myself am an atheist in the loosest sense, but I’ve always felt there was something not-quite-right about the rhetoric of Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, and other popular political atheists.

    I don’t think this kind of purely scientistic cultural ideology has quite taken the place of the old framework yet, but it seems like it would be the natural successor to the “civilizing” Christianity of old.

    Comment by space — November 19, 2008 @ 10:47 pm | Reply

  18. this is from newatheism: “Intolerance of ignorance, myth and superstition; disregard for the tolerance of religion.
    Indoctrination of logic, reason and the advancement of a naturalistic worldview.”

    I think it’s similar like what I said about some or many of the radical left, as long as they don’t understand their eurocentric roots, they will remain the same, just with another “other” to hate.

    Comment by jwbe — November 19, 2008 @ 11:01 pm | Reply

  19. Melissa, Christianity is more than just slavery. It is a certain ‘philosophy’ and attitude towards life and the assumed right to dominate all life

    Comment by jwbe — November 19, 2008 @ 11:12 pm | Reply

  20. >Melissa, Christianity is more than just slavery. It is a certain ‘philosophy’ and attitude towards life and the assumed right to dominate all life

    I’m not sure what you mean by that statement. I think Christianity is way, way more than slavery. I just brought it up because some used the fact that slavery was mentioned in the Bible as a justification for any kind of slavery. Yes, it’s a certain ‘philosophy” and attitude towards life. That’s probably true of all religions. I don’t know what you mean by the assumed right to dominate all life. I just don’t want all Christianity to be characterized as racist, because not all of it is.

    Comment by Melissa — November 20, 2008 @ 1:03 am | Reply

  21. > I just don’t want all Christianity to be characterized as racist, because not all of it is.

    Certainly, Christianity has been a site of remarkable liberatory organizing (e.g., African-American churches, liberation theology in Central and South America), but at the same time, it has historically participated in the colonialist project. I mean, it’s no accident that “civilizing” the so-called natives often meant Christianizing. So the point isn’t that Christianity is necessarily racist, but that it has been (and still is) as an institution implicated in the reproduction of racist discourse.

    I don’t think it’s a question of true or false Christianity either, but rather the recognition that the sign of “Christianity” does not stand outside history; it is a contested space as much as any other political discourse. While certainly not the cause of racism, it can nevertheless become an expression of it as it functions within racist institutions and structures.

    Of course, this is also true of the so-called “New Atheism” and its fetishizing of the Enlightenment (without realizing how the ideology of the Enlightenment is bound up with colonialism quite intimately), as space cogently points out above.

    Comment by theboxman — November 20, 2008 @ 1:55 am | Reply

  22. OK, now I get what you meant and I agree.

    Comment by Melissa — November 20, 2008 @ 2:08 am | Reply

  23. When I talk about Christianity I talk about the ‘over-all’ institution. Also think about the time of the Inquistition for example during the medieval age.

    Comment by jwbe — November 20, 2008 @ 1:03 pm | Reply

  24. I think I just get touchy because I’m used to other boards just broadly bashing Christianity and religion in general and calling anyone who believes them stupid. Religion, and especially Chrisitianity, has been used a reason for people to commit some atrocious acts throughout history.

    Comment by Melissa — November 20, 2008 @ 3:26 pm | Reply


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