Stuff White People Say

November 15, 2008

“I am not racist, you are”

Filed under: Uncategorized — jwbe @ 11:58 pm

In a world of white supremacy and using the Unesco definition of racism, only white people can be racist:

Racial discrimination is defined by the International Convention
on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination as “any
distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race,
colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose
or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or
exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental
freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other
field of public life”.

http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0014/001453/145364e.pdf

This is hard to digest for some of my fellow white people who are used to be God, Jesus, Saints, a sympol of peace, clean, pure, innocent and so on.

And now they have to deal with the ugly word RACIST

But whites weren’t white if they couldn’t immediately use the system of white supremacy to their advantage. In a system of white supremacy looking and finding somebody else to blame for ones own problems is nothing new.
Therefore there are “real racists”: KKK, Neo-Nazis, Rednecks, in Germany “the East”, in America “the South”, Conservatives, Republicans.

And of course there are the “good ones”: Democrats and liberals and any other white person who doesn’t commit “real racist” acts.

The essence of this is nothing else then othering. Instead of realizing certain groups nonetheless as one of us and part and product of our society, many whites disconnect themselves from them by stereotyping them. They are reduced to the mere fact “bad racist” and everybody who is familiar with some radical whites from the left knows how contra-productive any attempt will be to dismantle white supremacy until people don’t realize their own Eurocentrism. They use the familiar tactics of dehumanizing to justify their violence and hatred towards a certain group.

All this prevents the “good ones” from looking into the mirror. And all this also creates a “protective shield” which is necessary to keep up an illusion from oneself, to be uncritical of other whites who do “good work”.
What counts are “good intentions”. Not the result.
There comes a group dynamic into play when it comes to “good whites”. Because the “good whites” are not the “real racists” they should be granted immunity and offered support. And with this racism and the perpetuation of racism gets a new face and works sometimes on a very subtle level and is difficult to challenge.

Macon D is for me the perfect example why many [real life] white organizations fail. Macon D is so friendly to offer the WWW a view into the true nature of many white organizing.
At the top there is a white male who sees himself in a superior position. Some months ago he came up with the plan that I could participate on his blog as “guest writer”. No, I didn’t have the possibility like I have on this blog swps, to write without censorship [therefore you also have to live with my grammatical mistakes], he first wanted to “correct” my writings. Not only in terms of grammar. Even there he couldn’t let go his controll-issues.

Macon D is able to surround himself by some white protectors. They are uncritically loyal. The goal (unconsciously or not) is to create a place, where predominantly white male will define and decide what racism is and what not [watch his finger-pointing to certain groups like “racist Republicans” etc], who is allowed in his group and who not (censorship) and what is allowed to be said and what not.
The structures of white supremacy are in full action on Macon’s blog. And this is the problem of many white organizing, the already internal perpetuation of racism and white supremacy without living what somebody prays. One cannot “spread” equality without truly living it. Without looking into the own mirrors it just can’t work. They tell you they are your friend, that they are on ‘your side’ only with the attempt to remain in power. Hypocrisy as a way of life. My fellow white people who are used to be God, Jesus, Saints, a sympol of peace, clean, pure, innocent and so on just can’t let it go, the white supremacy deep in their soul.

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14 Comments »

  1. You’re trying too hard (and failing) to once again read my mind. And my unconscious. Being a white male does predispose me to power-grabbing, but I’m not at all “power-hungry” in the ways you say I am, quite the opposite. I do not insist, for instance, that my writing voice be the only one on my blog. For instance, I reached out to you, because you seemed to have a lot to say about whiteness in the comments, so I invited you to write a post, and then another (and I’m still grateful that you wrote them). As I said the time, the changes I suggested in your drafts (and you did agree to work with me on drafts) were only suggestions, not corrections. It’s a way I’ve worked as an editor with other writers, always with mutual satisfaction, except for you. Regarding grammar, yeah, I did correct that, and don’t see what the problem with that could be. Why not present a good argument in its most readable and convincing form?

    I don’t have some circle of white protectors–what a bizarre idea! And once again, I’ll say that no one is banned from my blog. Although I guess saying that again here on this “attack site” (note the biggest word in your word-cluster, my online name, Macon D–and as far as I can tell, nothing written here about me or my blog is positive or supportive) won’t keep y’all from saying again that some people are banned from my blog.

    Comment by macon d — November 16, 2008 @ 8:37 pm | Reply

  2. Macon, somebody who has problems with his first own language is just not qualified to edit anybody else.
    Somebody with a serious problem of comprehension skills as well as reading skills can also get a job as an editor in America?

    1: You’re trying too hard (and failing) to once again read my mind.

    Wrong. I don’t have to read your mind, I mentioned what I observed. My observations are correct

    2: And once again, I’ll say that no one is banned from my blog.

    I didn’t talk about readers being banned. READ before you open your mouth and at least pretend to use your brain.

    3: It’s a way I’ve worked as an editor with other writers, always with mutual satisfaction, except for you.

    See, this is the problem with you, like you say “many PoC like my blog”.
    It is never you who could be wrong.

    Comment by jwbe — November 16, 2008 @ 9:06 pm | Reply

  3. and this:

    >nothing written here about me or my blog is positive or supportive

    Why do you consider criticism as negative and non-supportive? Only because you reject it.

    Comment by jwbe — November 16, 2008 @ 9:29 pm | Reply

  4. And explain one thing to me: When you understand and know, that you still didn’t figure out your own whiteness, why are you then so eager to pretend to be somebody who already understands.
    Do you actually believe that for example alcoholic A is qualified to give advise to alcoholic B how to quit drinking, when alcoholic A is just not able to quit his addiction?

    And give answers and don’t run away again just to come back when you want to cry

    Comment by jwbe — November 16, 2008 @ 9:38 pm | Reply

  5. back to your blog and white group dynamic Macon

    quote Nquest:
    >”Different people are drawn to things for different reasons. And, really, there are that “MANY” POC who comment on your blog and fewer who have anything to say in terms of objecting to me and Restructure.

    Oh but you’ve had plenty of White ones who did. I leave it to you and JW to talk about what that says about your blog.”

    Don’t you find it odd that on an alleged anti-racist blog PoC are attacked by white people for what some PoC say about RACISM including criticism to some of your writings. In addition, don’t you find it odd, that on a place like this blog here swps, created in reaction to your treatment, you and some of your readers come here to again defend your white “institution”.
    And this is exactly what I am talking about. White people who think they know it all and who create a group where only certain people are allowed – all only yeah sayers or “supportive” to you by attacking those whose criticism you don’t accept or don’t want to hear.

    And you ignore criticism or non-aggreement of other PoC, in this case somebody Black in the handshake-thread: “I’m black and I use the “normal American handshake”, and so does every other person of color I know. The vast majority of black people don’t have a problem with the regular hand shake, nor do we feel that all white people should learn “our” way of shaking hands, just like we don’t expect them all to say “what’s up dawg” instead of “hello”. Last time I checked, there was no standard black hand shake. I understand that many white people take for granted that many Eurocentric traditions are considered normal, but in this case I don’t think there’s anything to worry about.”
    You with your white privilege conveniently ignore statements when you realize that the other person doesn’t want or doesn’t have the time or whatever to challenge you

    What does anti-racism mean to you?

    Comment by jwbe — November 16, 2008 @ 9:59 pm | Reply

  6. Macon D,

    Although I guess saying that again here on this “attack site” (note the biggest word in your word-cluster, my online name, Macon D–and as far as I can tell, nothing written here about me or my blog is positive or supportive)

    That’s because I tend to tag everything, and jwbe and Nquest rarely tag anything, and all (or most, but probably all) the posts tagged with “Macon D” are written by me. The tag cloud is not representative because of this artifact, so I shall remove it.

    Anyway, Stuff White People Do: feel besieged. It’s typical that you, as a white person, feel as if you are under siege, instead of entertaining the possibility that I am responding to and reacting to your blog posts in defense.

    Comment by Restructure! — November 17, 2008 @ 1:28 am | Reply

  7. Stuff White People Do: feel besieged.

    Exactly. And not only does he feels besieged but posters on his blog and those that show up her express how they think we’re just picking on Macon because he’s White or, for whatever reason, feel like we are wrong to criticize him though not a single one of them, or Macon himself, can dispute objectively, substantively or honestly dispute the arguments we’ve made here pointing out problematic things Macon has said. Instead, they retreat to nonsense about us just waiting for Macon to screw up (which, of course, is an admission that Macon screws up and a statement that says we shouldn’t say anything when he does).

    Anyway, to use Macon’s words to pose this rhetorical question re: Macon’s self-pity party:
    Why take comments on what strikes us as problematic parts of your posts as a comment about you, comments attacking you?

    On top of that, why be so damn phony as to tell Kathy “Restructure and Nquest helped me” when the nature of the things we said then are no different from what we’re saying now and have said in every thread on this blog?

    Note: When you choose to be intellectually dishonest, and especially when you have the nerve to tell me a bold-face lie to my blog/post-face or otherwise insult me by trying to bullshit me when it’s clear you don’t know what you’re talking about or clearly just saying stuff trying to get over or get by… that’s when you make it about YOU. And, as I said before… Don’t start none, won’t be none. You will not, not be called out on your bs or bush-league debate/discussion tactics.

    Comment by Nquest — November 17, 2008 @ 2:47 am | Reply

  8. 3: It’s a way I’ve worked as an editor with other writers, always with mutual satisfaction, except for you.

    See, this is the problem with you, like you say “many PoC like my blog”.
    It is never you who could be wrong.

    So if you’re the first one out of dozens to say this method is wrong, even though it works for everyone else, it’s wrong? Maybe in your mind, but not mine.

    And explain one thing to me: When you understand and know, that you still didn’t figure out your own whiteness, why are you then so eager to pretend to be somebody who already understands.
    Do you actually believe that for example alcoholic A is qualified to give advise to alcoholic B how to quit drinking, when alcoholic A is just not able to quit his addiction?

    And give answers and don’t run away again just to come back when you want to cry

    Cry? Sheesh, whatever.

    “GIVE ANSWERS, MACON!” Why, just because you ask for them? Am I in court, standing before a judge?

    Anyway, the alcoholism analogy is false. Whiteness is not something that one either understands or doesn’t. I understand parts of it, and attempt to explain those.

    I notice that you as a white person write about whiteness too. Are you claiming that you can do so because you’ve completely gotten over your white “addiction”? I don’t think any white person can fully do that, given the insidious powers of white supremacy. And if you think you have, I think you’re fooling yourself.

    Anyway, Stuff White People Do: feel besieged. It’s typical that you, as a white person, feel as if you are under siege, instead of entertaining the possibility that I am responding to and reacting to your blog posts in defense.

    Ah. Okay. I’ll do my best to think of this as a defense blog, rather than an attack one.

    Nquest, to lie is to intentionally mislead. I did no such thing. Anyway, since (despite your claims to mind-reader status) you can’t be inside my head, you have no way of knowing whether I intentionally misled. Your constant claims about my motives are another reason I can’t take seriously the words about me and my writings that have your name attached to them.

    Don’t you find it odd that on an alleged anti-racist blog PoC are attacked by white people for what some PoC say about RACISM including criticism to some of your writings.

    People should refrain from responding negatively to what someone else has to say about racism, just because that someone is a PoC? I don’t think so. What if that someone is, say, Clarence Thomas?

    In addition, don’t you find it odd, that on a place like this blog here swps, created in reaction to your treatment, you and some of your readers come here to again defend your white “institution”.

    No, I don’t find that odd. Y’all should think more about your “treatment.” But I’ll take the hint and go back to just listening here, or rather, reading.

    Comment by macon d — November 17, 2008 @ 4:27 am | Reply

  9. Macon D,

    Ah. Okay. I’ll do my best to think of this as a defense blog, rather than an attack one.

    Yes. Keep in mind that this blog came into being because you started censoring our comments and silencing our criticisms of your posts. If you hadn’t refused to publish the comments of Nquest and I, this blog wouldn’t have happened.

    Comment by Restructure! — November 17, 2008 @ 4:52 am | Reply

  10. Keep in mind that this blog came into being because you started censoring our comments and silencing our criticisms of your posts. If you hadn’t refused to publish the comments of Nquest and I, this blog wouldn’t have happened.

    Not entirely accurate. What I “silenced” from you was a personal question. What I silenced from Nq was a couple of attempts to hijack yet another thread. (And I’m well aware of your claim that PoC can’t do that on a white blog–I disagree.) I’m not averse to criticsm, far from it, and I’ve published many critical comments since.

    Comment by macon d — November 17, 2008 @ 5:19 am | Reply

  11. Nquest, to lie is to intentionally mislead. I did no such thing.

    1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive 2 : to create a false or misleading impression
    http://www.aolsvc.merriam-webster.aol.com/dictionary/lie%5B3%5D

    This is the BOLD-FACED LIE you told:

    “And I also wasn’t saying in that other discussion thread, by the way, that Tochluk bemoaned the loss of some white culture… rather than a lost “ethnic” cultural heritage (though I imagine you might be able to pluck out some partial, misleadingly decontextualized quote from my writing to “prove” that I did); I was instead explaining why white people don’t commonly perceive a common, detailed, distinct, plain old “white” culture that they could grab onto INSTEAD of a lost cultural heritage.”

    This is why what you said when you said, “I wasn’t saying…” is a BOLD-FACED, intentional LIE:

    She felt like she didn’t have a culture because white Americans don’t see something commonly called “white culture.”

    “She feels a real sense of loss because she looks at other supposed cultures and thinks she doesn’t have one.”

    There is NO WAY you did not know you didn’t make… not one but two statements like that. And ain’t a damn thing decontextualized in what I quoted. You were asked (by me) point blank:

    why would she feel a real sense of loss?

    (originally Restructure’s question that you failed to answer)

    Comment by Nquest — November 17, 2008 @ 5:24 am | Reply

  12. What I silenced from Nq was a couple of attempts to hijack yet another thread.

    BULLSHIT!!!

    And well-documented bs, at that.
    https://stuffwhitepeoplesay.wordpress.com/2008/07/20/im-rejecting-the-comment-you-submitted-for-publication-approval/

    Also, I beat Restructure to the punch and made the “POC Keep Hijacking Our Threads”… Let’s hear you argument against what I presented there.

    https://stuffwhitepeoplesay.wordpress.com/2008/09/20/poc-keep-hijacking-our-threads/

    Comment by Nquest — November 17, 2008 @ 5:32 am | Reply

  13. Anyway, the alcoholism analogy is false. Whiteness is not something that one either understands or doesn’t. I understand parts of it, and attempt to explain those.

    I notice that you as a white person write about whiteness too. Are you claiming that you can do so because you’ve completely gotten over your white “addiction”? I don’t think any white person can fully do that, given the insidious powers of white supremacy. And if you think you have, I think you’re fooling yourself.

    I think alcoholism is a quite good analogy. Signs of addiction are denial together with defense, attempts to hide it, the belief that it can be reduced step by step, finding excuses etc.
    Dry alcoholics will always be at risk but they can admit it, they talk honestly about it and don’t deny it.
    Then there are people who drink occasionally or never. They don’t need it.
    It is correct that nobody can avoid the impact of society entirely, but it also depends on the impact. I also don’t claim to be an expert or a teacher, I offer my thoughts I have about white supremacy and don’t claim that these thoughts are the ultimate truth.

    Comment by jwbe — November 17, 2008 @ 12:18 pm | Reply

  14. So if you’re the first one out of dozens to say this method is wrong, even though it works for everyone else, it’s wrong? Maybe in your mind, but not mine.

    yes for me it’s wrong. Because of your lack of understanding white supremacy you edit based on this non-understanding. Because I was also an author (about another topic) I know how it is to work together with an editor like you, who doesn’t have real understanding but wants to come up with assumptions and changes the content and context. Being a good editor in topic A doesn’t make you a good editor in topic B. Because you edited “dozens” of authors who could agree with you doesn’t mean that I have agree with you.

    People should refrain from responding negatively to what someone else has to say about racism, just because that someone is a PoC? I don’t think so. What if that someone is, say, Clarence Thomas?

    this indicates that you don’t understand so much. I was talking about white male group dynamic. I was talking about censorship on your blog. I was talking about creating a hostile atmosphere on your blog where you signalize that certain people aren’t welcomed.

    Comment by jwbe — November 17, 2008 @ 1:46 pm | Reply


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