Stuff White People Say

November 11, 2008

“White people have no culture.”

Filed under: Stuff White People Do — Restructure! @ 8:13 pm

White people are pretty effed up sometimes. White people often think say things like, “White people have no culture,” and think that there is nothing racist about that statement. Macon D posted another messed up post at Stuff White People Do, quoting a White American named Shelly Tochluk who feels a “sense of loss” because she is white. Tolchuk writes:

However, many of us find ourselves looking at other groups and longing for the connection we imagine they feel with their roots, their homeland, their culture. Many white folks can be heard saying, “We don’t have culture. They have culture.”

Tolchuk is careful enough to write, “the connection we imagine they feel with their roots, their homeland, their culture,” instead of “the connection they feel with their roots, their homeland, their culture.” She also attributes in quotation marks, “We don’t have culture. They have culture,” as the sentiment of white folks, instead of making it her own claim about reality. However, the rest of the excerpt goes on to assume that these white folks’ assumptions about the cultures of people of colour are accurate.

Normally, I would write a more organized, structured, and formal post about how white people have faulty worldviews, but then I realized that explaining in explicit language why “We don’t have culture. They have culture,” is full of white privilege is a lot more complicated than I originally thought. Hence, I will post an unstructured rant instead, and hopefully, it will help me organize my thoughts so that I might create a better, structured post later on.

Tolchuk writes:

I know that I am not alone. I hear the same sentiments too much from other white people. If anything, this is one of the truest hallmarks of whiteness that I have yet encountered. There is a hole within many of us, created when our families gave up our culture in order to be successful in the United States.

Guess what, Ms. Tolchuk? People of colour do not have the option to become white even if we wanted to. Being white is a choice for you; it is not for people who have dark skin or non-Caucasian facial features. Don’t you think that of the millions of people of colour in North America, many would give up anything in order to become successful? Many of us have already lost our culture, yet no matter how white we act and how severed we are from our roots, we can’t pass as white.

What people of colour have that white people don’t is not culture. What people of colour have that white people don’t is racialization. How can you speak about “my culture” when you don’t even know what “my culture” is? How can you speak about “my homeland” when you don’t even know what “my homeland” is? If you’re a typical white person and I tell you my ethnicity, you would assume that my culture is “Chinese” and my homeland is “China”. This is incorrect. My homeland is Canada, and my culture is Canadian. I have never been to China, and I don’t know what Chinese culture consists of. If you’re a typical white person, you would tell me, “But that’s not your culture.” If you’re typical white person, you would believe that you know better than me about what my culture is and where my homeland is located. You would feel “jealous” that you don’t have a connection to a foreign country, assuming it’s something that I have because I can’t pass as white.

Your worldview is based on the faulty assumption that we don’t pass as white because we didn’t give up our culture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_assimilation#Theoretical_explanations

The first, classic and new assimilation model sees immigrants and native-born people following a “straight-line” or a convergence. This theory sees immigrants becoming more similar over time in norms, values, behaviors, and characteristics. This theory also expects those immigrants residing the longest in the host population, as well as the members of later generations, to show greater similarities with the majority group than immigrants who have spent less time in the host society.

The old model of assimilation was based on the historical assimilation of European immigrants, and the model still works for modern European immigrants because they are white. Although not all white Europeans today were considered white historically, they became white because the definition of whiteness changed to include them. This model also doesn’t take into account the fact that similarity judgements by white people factor in race. Visible people of colour cannot be “assimilated” like white Europeans not because we choose to retain our cultures, but because the current definition of whiteness excludes us and makes us appear dissimilar. Notice how a second-generation white German American can become white in one generation, but a seventh-generation Asian American can never become white no matter what she does, besides gaining white Caucasian physical features.

It’s not culture; it’s racialization. This is what I have that you don’t have. It’s nothing to feel a sense of loss over, and the very fact that you think I have culture that you don’t have because I’m not white is an example of how you otherize me and think of me as a perpetual foreigner.

Here is an excerpt from Rita Rico, MA, C.Phil, that recognizes and articulates the conceptual errors of most assimilation models. She uses the example of Latin@s.

Panethnic Latinidad: Political Identity Formations and Mobilizations in Contemporary Los Angeles:

Immigrant Groups Assimilation theories maintain that migrants who arrive in the US shed most of their ethnic and cultural backgrounds to become incorporated into mainstream American life (Alba and Nee 2006: 125).

In this section, I argue that assimilation theories 1) attempt to fit Latinos into a model created to understand the incorporation of European immigrants, one that allows for the eventual disappearance of ethnic markers and subsequent easy entry into the host society. 2) This often leads assimilationists to describe Latinos as a grouping of ethnicities, rather than a racial group. Doing so allows Latinos to be seen as neo-European immigrants who have not assimilated because of their own cultural deficiencies and not because of the host society’s treatment of them. Finally, 3) assimilationists do not question panethnic sentiments as all Latino groups are seen as essentially the same as immigrants. Further, assimilationists are unable to understand the difference in the treatment of Latinos from European immigrants because their analysis does not account for racialization.

Assimilation theories assumed that European immigrants would eventually form a unified part of the white racial identity. Gordon’s notion of acculturation, as the minority group’s adoption of cultural patterns of the host society and structural assimilation into Anglo-American society, as well as Gans straight-line assimilation of progressive generational adjustment and incorporation represent the diversity of mechanisms by which assimilation is thought to occur (Alba and Nee 2006: 127). In addition, segmented assimilation attempts to recognize that discrimination may taint the assimilation progression of immigrants, but still largely accepts the normative and conceptual premise of assimilation that immigrants should choose upward mobility by attaining American cultural fluency (Bean and Stevens 2003: 101). Despite Alba and Nee’s attempt to restore the notion of assimilation as complimentary to ethnicity and imperative for children of immigrants to avoid the temptation to drop out of school and join the inner-city underclass, (2003: 129) assimilation theories remain rooted in white hegemonic perspectives that cannot account for processes of racialization towards non-European immigrants. The majority of early European immigrants enjoyed phenotypic privilege, or light skin, and thus had less difficulty proving their whiteness than other groups with darker skin tones. Nevertheless, assimilationist theories have been unproblematically applied to Latino ethnic groups. 6

Therefore, assimilation theories approach Latino groups as ethnic groups rather than racial ones that would align them with African-American identities to maintain both the conceptual segregation of blacks and whites, as well as the normative assumption that Latinos are capable of achieving whiteness. Nevertheless, US-born Latinos and Latino immigrants experience racialization in a way that distinguishes them from whites and European immigrants. Rocco argues that Latinos are consistently perceived as perpetual foreigners despite their longstanding history in the US (2004: 21). Assimilationists almost always place the impetus of belonging as the responsibility of the migrant, and do not recognize xenophobia and racialization as factors negatively influencing incorporation (Waldinger 1999, 2007, Alba and Nee 2007). Thus, assimilation theories do not take into account the institutional limitations to full membership and citizenship.

(emphasis mine)

Like many white people, Tochluk confuses race with culture, and racism with cultural difference. White people can give up their cultural heritage and become white, but visible people of colour cannot, not because we can’t give up our cultural heritage, but because cultural heritage and non-whiteness are two different things. It doesn’t work, because we have already tried it; I have tried it. Takao Ozawa tried it in 1922, and it didn’t work. Bhagat Singh Thind tried it in 1923, and it didn’t work. We are still considered “ethnics”, as it’s not up to us. For white people, to be “ethnic” entails having a “culture”, so that’s why white people think that non-white people automatically have culture that white people don’t.

Everyone has culture, and non-white people don’t have more of it than white people. Obviously, there’s no such thing as a cultural practise that white people have exclusively that non-white people never participate in (except perhaps white privilege). Similarly, however, there’s no such cultural practise that non-white people have exclusively that white people never participate in (except perhaps lacking white privilege). The point is that when white people assume there is such a thing as “non-white culture”, they are unconsciously labelling every cultural practise that is not in that category “white culture”. For example, according to white people, chopsticks are “non-white culture” and in opposition to forks, which are considered standard. This taxonomy implies that forks are “white culture”. This doesn’t mean that as a non-white person, I don’t use forks. It means that white people are unconsciously dividing up cultural practises into “white” and “non-white”, and “white” means “normal”, and “non-white” means weird, foreign, exotic, or other. White people don’t consciously and explicitly label forks “white culture”, because they assume that forks are culturally-neutral, which is actually an indication of ethnocentrism. White people don’t normally even use the term “non-white”, but they mean that when they say “ethnic” or “cultural”. White people don’t say that forks are “ethnic”, but they may say that about chopsticks. White people don’t think of forks as a “cultural tradition”, but they may think that about chopsticks.

When I say that “white culture” is everywhere, I call it “white” because I’m still speaking in terms of the subconscious “white”/”non-white” dichotomy that I consider illegitimate. I communicate in English, and it’s hard to use the English language with all its “white” framing to criticize the “white” framing of the English language without using the same language and “white” framing. “White” is a social construct, and when I refer to “white culture”, I am still referring to the social construct, not something outside of this construct.

To summarize, Shelly Tochluk has white privilege and feels a “sense of loss” because she thinks that (only) white people have no culture. By even making such a claim, even if implicit, Tolchuk otherizes people of colour and views us as unassimilable perpetual foreigners that have foreign loyalties and different mindsets. Her assumptions are based on no evidence, but on speculation and on the unanimousness of white opinion, at least within the sample of white people she has talked with. Tolchuk thinks that a person’s culture can determined from a person’s racial features, but what she assumes to be culture is actually racialization and being considered exotic. White people have “white culture”, but “white culture” is not about the race of the person practising it, but about how it’s considered “normal” instead of foreign, exotic, and other. The vernacular concept of “culture” is racialized, although technically, all human beings have and participate in culture.

Originally published asWhite people say, “White people have no culture.” at Restructure!

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65 Comments »

  1. Tochluk doesn’t think that white people don’t have a culture, and I don’t think that either. She instead writes about how white people don’t usually perceive a common, collective, recognizable simply “white culture” that they can easily point to and claim and affirm as their own. That’s different from the erroneous implications of this post, and it’s title–a claim that Tochluk and I say that white people have no culture. She also does not indicate an assumption that the assumptions that other white people make about the cultures of people of color are accurate.

    I’ll add here for readers of this site what I wrote in a comment to this post at Restructure!’s blog, which is called Restructure!:

    Thanks Restructure! for these apparently preliminary thoughts. I hope that if you do revise this, as you say you hope to do, you read Tochluk’s book first. You seem to set her up here as a hopelessly ignorant racist on the basis of a few paragraphs from her book, but in it, she fully acknowledges elsewhere most or all of what you’re ranting about here. The two of you (and me) are much more in agreement than you seem to realize.

    Yes, of course it’s ridiculous to look at a non-white face and assume that person has some deep connection to a culture–Tochluk’s paragraphs, and my post, are an effort to understand why so many white people do that, and why they don’t seem to have some sort of collective, simply “white” culture of their own to grab onto themselves. That’s not to say there isn’t actually something we could identify as “white culture” (though I’m still not sure that’s even possible). Rather, it’s to say that white Americans themselves generally don’t perceive something they can collectively grasp and affirm as simply “white culture,” as opposed to such white subsets as Southern (white) culture, or Irish American/Irish culture, and so on.

    Yes, as you wrote, “racialization” is important here, and when it comes to white folks today, they’ve been racialized as well. And one result is that in racial terms, they usually think of themselves as individuals, and of non-white people as members of more or less homogeneous groups. One manifestation of having been atomized by this individualization process is that white people don’t perceive some collective, simply “white” culture of their own, and they do tend to perceive others as having it.

    So some white Americans, many of whom aren’t even sure which countries their relatives came from, feel a lack, a “hole” in this sense, and as Tochluk writes, some of them reach out to what seem to be other cultures in an effort to fill that lack. Many suburban white boys, as we know, do this with supposedly black, urban hip hop culture–they see nothing around them in the suburbs to embrace, and nothing “white” they want to embrace either; they also don’t see some sort of “white culture” (though they might see “suburban” or “white suburban” culture). Tochluk and I both say we’ve done that ourselves in our own ways, and we know that’s wrong, and we’re trying to expose that common white tendency. We say that, in part, in an effort to understand better why even “well-educated” white Americans do this. And also as an effort to excise from ourselves the socially induced tendency toward egregious Otherizing that you mostly seem to be writing about here.

    Comment by macon d — November 11, 2008 @ 10:49 pm | Reply

  2. Tochluk writes:

    White folks who cannot fully recapture a lost cultural heritage, like myself, often experience a real sense of loss.

    I could barely move as I was reminded of how I loved what other cultures have precisely because I know the emptiness that results when tradition is traded in for whiteness.

    I know that I am not alone. I hear the same sentiments too much from other white people. If anything, this is one of the truest hallmarks of whiteness that I have yet encountered. There is a hole within many of us, created when our families gave up our culture in order to be successful in the United States.

    Comment by jwbe — November 11, 2008 @ 11:00 pm | Reply

    • At the same time that whites were destroying others, they were destroying themselves.It is so sad that white ancestors left their children with nothing for immediate gains.

      Comment by Isis — January 18, 2010 @ 6:54 pm | Reply

    • “I could barely move as I was reminded of how I loved what other cultures have precisely because I know the emptiness that results when tradition is traded in for whiteness.”

      The above statement reeks with stupidity but more importanly it’s another form of the new racism practiced by Tochluk and others-Anti-White racism.

      Comment by Toby — December 7, 2010 @ 4:44 pm | Reply

    • I’ve always wondered about that. I’m American-born, but my parents are from Liberia, West Africa, so their culture bleeds into what I do. I’ve had white friends who have the luxury of being able to recite their lineage (my ancestors were slaves in the US before returning to Africa and because of that I had to take a DNA test in order to find out my background) but don’t do/say anything that reflects that culture. I’ve heard people say I’m Irish, I’m German, etc, but they don’t seem to do anything that reflects their culture. I wonder how many people are truly bothered by their loss of culture.

      Comment by pErSoNa — October 27, 2013 @ 11:01 pm | Reply

  3. jw(be): and your point is?

    Comment by macon d — November 11, 2008 @ 11:26 pm | Reply

  4. Tochluk doesn’t think that white people don’t have a culture, and I don’t think that either. She instead writes about how white people don’t usually perceive a common, collective, recognizable simply “white culture” that they can easily point to and claim and affirm as their own.

    And? Your point? Seriously, what does this stuff mean?

    It’s clear you’re saying nothing that makes much or any sense when you say, “some white Americans, many of whom aren’t even sure which countries their relatives came from, feel a lack, a “hole” in this sense.”

    Hmmm…. Beyond that fact that there are POC, especially African-Americans, who have that same sense of cultural loss, the whole “which countries their relatives came from” thing takes us back to where, Macon?

    ANSWER: White “subsets.”

    By definition, those Whites tracing their cultural heritage are going to go in several different directions — i.e. several different countries. You know, like Germany, Italy, Ireland, England, etc. So what the hell are you talking about?

    At least figure it out before you try to talk about it.

    Comment by Nquest — November 11, 2008 @ 11:34 pm | Reply

  5. that you should finally start to truly explore whiteness.
    And start explaining where American culture differs so extremely that it is a loss, when there is even within one European country no monolithic culture. There are basics of a culture and this is Eurocentrism and Christianity – unfortunately both white America didn’t lose.
    How do Americans please define culture when they are unable to realize their way of life as culture?
    You just post her writings, could in whatever way identify with it but you are unable to make your point.
    Germans don’t think that they don’t have culture, so help me understand what you want to say. What is your point? And don’t tell me that a 50th generation American of German descent feels a cultural loss of German culture. Also don’t act as if WHITENESS was and is something entirely new or unique to America, when EUROPE has the similar history of whiteness. The concept of race was also known in Europe.

    Comment by jwbe — November 11, 2008 @ 11:47 pm | Reply

  6. Many suburban white boys, as we know, do this with supposedly black, urban hip hop culture

    Suburban……. URBAN… Yet, you imply that there is “Black culture” when you use regional concepts or proximity to cities as a way to establish the claim that there is no perceptibly “White” culture.

    From your “get used to blackness” thread:
    Some white Americans love black culture, or what they think is black culture (especially corporate hip hop). But very few white Americans love to see black culture in their political leaders.

    Simple question: what is… or better yet, how is there anything that can be called “black culture”?

    Note: You’ve already declared hip hop… “urban.” Also, there are plenty African-Americans from the Motown generation who aren’t down with hip hop.

    Comment by Nquest — November 11, 2008 @ 11:50 pm | Reply

  7. Nquest, I do know what I’m talking about–it’s not at all that I haven’t figured it out yet. It seems that you’re the one who hasn’t figured it out yet.

    Tochluk doesn’t think that white people don’t have a culture, and I don’t think that either. She instead writes about how white people don’t usually perceive a common, collective, recognizable simply “white culture” that they can easily point to and claim and affirm as their own.

    And? Your point? Seriously, what does this stuff mean?

    Seriously, it means that while there may be a discernible set of white practices, beliefs, values and so on that could be fairly labeled “white culture,” most white people aren’t aware of them AS SUCH, as “white culture.” They THINK that while NON-white people have “culture,” there is no such thing as “white culture,” and when they see others embrace and/or practice what seems like culture, they feel a loss, or lack, or “hole.” So yes, they sometimes turn to what you call “subsets,” ethnic European heritages. But those aren’t simply white culture, because they’re not shared by all white people, and they’re not recognized as, or called, simply “white culture.” They’re “ethnic,” and indeed, the word ethnic gained prominence precisely to distinguish from (and often discriminate against) European immigrants and practices.

    So again, white people often feel a lack, or “hole” in Tochluk’s terms, because they often THINK (yes, erroneously) that various POC have discernible, embraceable cultures, but that there is no common, embraceable, plain “white culture.” So again, they turn to ethnic subsets, like German American or whatever, and sometimes, as Tochluk says, to what they perceive as other cultures, which usually means “commodity racism,” bits and pieces of purchased, foreign, “exotic” or otherwise romanticized culture. But the point is that they often do so because they feel a loss, and they feel that because they don’t perceive a current, common, collective, simply “white culture.”

    So when they turn to a white subset, like Italian American, that’s not an embracing of “white culture.”

    Does this help you figure out what I and Tochluk are getting at?

    Comment by macon d — November 11, 2008 @ 11:56 pm | Reply

  8. seriously, what happens to white Americans during education etc.? This can’t be real.

    Comment by jwbe — November 11, 2008 @ 11:57 pm | Reply

  9. >Seriously, it means that while there may be a discernible set of white practices, beliefs, values and so on that could be fairly labeled “white culture,” most white people aren’t aware of them AS SUCH, as “white culture.” They THINK that while NON-white people have “culture,” there is no such thing as “white culture,” and when they see others embrace and/or practice what seems like culture, they feel a loss, or lack, or “hole.”

    They suddenly feel how stupid they are? Yes I can imagine that this truly hurts

    Comment by jwbe — November 11, 2008 @ 11:59 pm | Reply

  10. Nquest @ Comment # 6: No, I haven’t declared hip hop urban. Look, my focus is on common white (and yes, fallacious) concepts of non-white culture. I wrote, as you just quoted,

    Many suburban white boys, as we know, do this with supposedly black, urban hip hop culture (note that the “supposedly” modifies both “black” and “urban”)

    And

    Some white Americans love black culture, or what they think is black culture (especially corporate hip hop). (there’s no definition on my part here of what hip hop really is)

    See, I’m not talking about, nor am I interested in defining, what black culture is, nor where it’s located. I’m talking about white conceptions of black culture, and other non-white cultures, and about why white people form and act on those conceptions.

    If you’re interested in what the definition of black culture is, I’ll leave that up to you.

    Comment by macon d — November 12, 2008 @ 12:07 am | Reply

  11. jw(be) wrote: They suddenly feel how stupid they are? Yes I can imagine that this truly hurts

    They may well realize they’ve been duped, and “stupid” to that degree.

    You sure do love that word for describing white Americans. Do you really think that as a group, they’re genetically inferior to other races? Isn’t that, after all, what “stupid” means, when applied to a whole race of people? Or is it that they’ve somehow been “stupefied”? Please explain your repeated usage of this derogatory slur.

    Comment by macon d — November 12, 2008 @ 12:11 am | Reply

  12. JWBE said: “you should finally start to truly explore whiteness.”

    That would require Macon to ask WHY whites feel this sense of cultural loss and confront the question of “what is it about Whiteness and the culture in which Whites find themselves in that creates this sense of loss?”

    I don’t know if Macon wants address things like that. He’s much more interested in finding a way to talk about Black people.

    Comment by Nquest — November 12, 2008 @ 12:16 am | Reply

  13. Macon,
    <You sure do love that word for describing white Americans. Do you really think that as a group, they’re genetically inferior to other races? Isn’t that, after all, what “stupid” means, when applied to a whole race of people? Or is it that they’ve somehow been “stupefied”? Please explain your repeated usage of this derogatory slur.

    being stupid has nothing to do with genetics but with up-bringing and education. This seems to be a very high prize white Americans have to pay to be the most powerful (as a group) people on earth. You should explore this. Because this is also the answer why white America voted Bush and also supported McCain/PALIN in such high numbers. The answer just can’t be intelligence = thinking instead of just being emotional.

    Also I didn’t call all white Americans stupid.

    Comment by jwbe — November 12, 2008 @ 12:23 am | Reply

  14. The truth comes out:

    “What we need to transform is the white culture people speak of that is associated with segregated lives, isolation, disconnection, individualism, sanitization, arrogance, obliviousness, entitlement,”

    Macon, your focus wasn’t on “common white concepts of non-white culture” when you wrote “get used to blackness” (and when you wrote the handshake thread) because your very post there assumed that there was a certain “black” culture, etc., etc. As you said:

    I don’t know what modes of black expression Barack and Michelle Obama are used to using in private, but they certainly must feel a need to check themselves in public.

    Because you just know there’s something there even when you have to admit you “don’t know.” You have and will continue to have a tough job of focusing on “common white concepts of non-white culture” when you can’t loosen yourself from the grip of those “common white concepts.”

    Comment by Nquest — November 12, 2008 @ 12:25 am | Reply

  15. >“What we need to transform is the white culture people speak of that is associated with segregated lives, isolation, disconnection, individualism, sanitization, arrogance, obliviousness, entitlement,”

    it’s weird that whites can say they don’t have culture when they can speak of parts of their white culture.

    Comment by jwbe — November 12, 2008 @ 12:41 am | Reply

  16. and perhaps this “no culture” thing goes more toward “Spaßgesellschaft” (a society which is more or less addicted to having fun and entertainment and lacks depth)

    Comment by jwbe — November 12, 2008 @ 12:44 am | Reply

  17. Macon, the question was:

    And start explaining where American culture differs so extremely that it is a loss, when there is even within one European country no monolithic culture. There are basics of a culture and this is Eurocentrism and Christianity – unfortunately both white America didn’t lose.
    How do Americans please define culture when they are unable to realize their way of life as culture?
    You just post her writings, could in whatever way identify with it but you are unable to make your point.
    Germans don’t think that they don’t have culture, so help me understand what you want to say. What is your point? And don’t tell me that a 50th generation American of German descent feels a cultural loss of German culture. Also don’t act as if WHITENESS was and is something entirely new or unique to America, when EUROPE has the similar history of whiteness. The concept of race was also known in Europe.

    Comment by jwbe — November 12, 2008 @ 12:47 am | Reply

  18. Nquest: That would require Macon to ask WHY whites feel this sense of cultural loss and confront the question of “what is it about Whiteness and the culture in which Whites find themselves in that creates this sense of loss?”

    Good idea, thanks, and I have done some of that on my blog. There’s certainly more to ask about in this regard, I agree.

    I don’t know if Macon wants address things like that. He’s much more interested in finding a way to talk about Black people.

    To use one of your favorites, “bs.” You’re playing mindreader again, and failing. Again.

    Comment by macon d — November 12, 2008 @ 1:01 am | Reply

  19. She also does not indicate an assumption that the assumptions that other white people make about the cultures of people of color are accurate.

    Then why would she feel a “real sense of loss”? Surely, if she understood that what she loses is racialization, it’s nothing to feel sad over.

    Comment by Restructure! — November 12, 2008 @ 1:12 am | Reply

  20. Seriously, it means that while there may be a discernible set of white practices, beliefs, values and so on that could be fairly labeled “white culture,” most white people aren’t aware of them AS SUCH, as “white culture.” They THINK that while NON-white people have “culture,” there is no such thing as “white culture,” and when they see others embrace and/or practice what seems like culture, they feel a loss, or lack, or “hole.”

    And then what? As a POC, white people have come up to me and said that they were “jealous” of me because they “white people have no culture”. When they do this, it’s pretty obvious that what you described is what they are thinking. You’re just restating what white people have said over and over again, but in your own words. What is your point?

    If there is no further point, then it has nothing to do with anti-racism.

    But the point is that they often do so because they feel a loss, and they feel that because they don’t perceive a current, common, collective, simply “white culture.”

    So what?

    This happens all the time.

    Comment by Restructure! — November 12, 2008 @ 1:28 am | Reply

  21. Does this help you figure out what I and Tochluk are getting at?

    No, because for some reason, I expect you to make some kind of insightful point. I thought you were supposed to be doing critical whiteness studies, not just whiteness studies.

    Comment by Restructure! — November 12, 2008 @ 1:32 am | Reply

  22. I’m shuttling back and forth between R!’s blog and this one, getting tough to answer three antagonistic commenters across two blogs . . .

    Then why would she feel a “real sense of loss”? Surely, if she understood that what she loses is racialization, it’s nothing to feel sad over.

    Is that what she understands she loses? Racialization? I don’t think she loses her whiteness . . .

    R: “So what?”

    The point is for whites to realize that they do this exotification (it may be obvious to you as a POC that they do it, but it’s not to many whites), and then to begin understanding why whites do this. As Tochluk’s title states, “First Steps.” The quote of hers that I posted on my blog, especially the part about the white performance artist, makes it clear that the author of the book, Tochluk, thinks that white people shouldn’t do that to other cultures, that they should try to understand why they often do, and what that “hole” is, and means.

    Getting whites to understand their egregious, common white tendencies has a lot to do with anti-racism. That seems obvious to me.

    Comment by macon d — November 12, 2008 @ 1:40 am | Reply

  23. Macon, you can call “bs” when you always caught saying stuff like:

    So, to leave out POC, or common conceptions of POC, would mean failing to address this large and important area of whiteness, and how it works, and what it does (or rather, leads people to do).

    Which was (and note the difference) demonstrable bullsh*t. No mindreading necessary when I referenced the very thing you explicitly feel you must do when it’s clear you don’t, again:

    You don’t have to talk about POC to say “some white Americans, many of whom aren’t even sure which countries their relatives came from, feel a lack, a “hole” in this sense.”

    The fact that I gave you a “good idea” illustrates my point.

    Comment by Nquest — November 12, 2008 @ 1:42 am | Reply

  24. Macon, you didn’t answer Restructure’s question: Then why would she feel a “real sense of loss”?

    Talking about “First Steps” doesn’t answer that question.

    Comment by Nquest — November 12, 2008 @ 1:46 am | Reply

  25. N @ # 24: I see the word “real” there as a magnifier, like “very,” as in a strong sense of loss. How could a sense of loss be false sense?

    Comment by macon d — November 12, 2008 @ 2:10 am | Reply

  26. N @ 23: You said I’m looking here for ways to talk about black people. I’m not. I’m interesting in looking, as Tochluk is, for ways to talk about how white people think about and talk about non-white people. See the difference?

    Which was (and note the difference) demonstrable bullsh*t.

    What difference? That you now write “bullsh*t” instead of “bs”? Okay. Noted.

    Comment by macon d — November 12, 2008 @ 2:17 am | Reply

  27. Macon keeps trying to avoid answering the question because he’d have to let go of his bs pretenses and the one he wants to assign to Tochluk. The very first thing Macon quoted from Tochluk contained the phrase he now wants to create a distraction with:

    White folks who cannot fully recapture a lost cultural heritage, like myself, often experience a real sense of loss.

    Answer the question, Macon: “why would she feel a real sense of loss?”

    You said I’m looking here for ways to talk about black people. I’m not. I’m interesting in looking, as Tochluk is, for ways to talk about how white people think about and talk about non-white people. See the difference?

    The only thing I see is your repeated attempts to avoid dealing with Whiteness in any depth. You use POC and the ways “white people think about and talk about non-white people as a crutch.” It’s like you’re scared of the subject. Too damn chickenshit to deal with it.

    Conversations about Gen. X didn’t and never had to include comparisons between or references to other cultures.

    Comment by Nquest — November 12, 2008 @ 2:50 am | Reply

  28. Answer the question, Macon: “why would she feel a real sense of loss?”

    I’m not avoiding the question, and I don’t what the hell you mean by “pretenses.” In what sense do you think I’m pretending?

    She feels a real sense of loss because she looks at other supposed cultures and thinks she doesn’t have one. The white performance artist prompts her to realize that she may well have purchased “exotic” “cultural” commodities to fill that hole, that sense of loss.

    Scared and chickenshit to talk about what subject? What are you talking about here, in yet another ridiculous, false statement of what I think and feel?

    Comment by macon d — November 12, 2008 @ 2:58 am | Reply

  29. Macon, you still didn’t answer the question. Regurgitating stuff that’s already in the quote from Tochluk is chickenshit.

    To get to the root issue, especially since she’s talking about her former self, we have to know WHY she felt like she didn’t have a culture, what was it these other cultures had (what the hell is a “supposed culture”?) that she felt she lacked. That stuff you mentioned about some White Americans not knowing where their families came from can’t be it.

    So what is it? WHY does she, WHY do they (those White Americans you allude to) feel a sense of loss?

    Comment by Nquest — November 12, 2008 @ 4:13 am | Reply

  30. As my mother used to say: “Oof!” Answering your questions calls for repeating what I’ve already said. Then you say I’m avoiding the question! But I’m not. So enough with the “chickenshit,” okay?

    She felt like she didn’t have a culture because white Americans don’t see something commonly called “white culture.” From that common white perspective, African Americans or Koreans and Korean Americans seem to have cultures that they seem to embrace, but white folks don’t seem to have one. Got it?

    I write a “supposed culture” to describe the common white (mis)perception of some group’s collective ways of being–in this context, it’s a white person’s conception of supposed (and not actual, real) culture. In many white minds, these other, fantasized cultures supposedly had traditions. I say “supposed,” as I think Tochluk now would too, because she used to merely purchase a connection to them, most likely by buying things made by people in non-American countries to sell to white fantasizers.

    Why do such white Americans feel a sense of loss, you ask? Because, again, they don’t see an identifiable, labeled “white culture” they can grab onto and embrace as their own, and yet, other people do seem, to the white person, to have cultures that they’re embracing.

    Comment by macon d — November 12, 2008 @ 4:46 am | Reply

  31. Got it?

    No. I don’t get chickenshit. Plus you sound like you’re going into your regular spiel (yours not hers) and not saying what Tochluk said herself. Beyond that, you failed to answer the natural flowing question: why doesn’t Tochluk, a White American, feel like there is a “white culture?” Surely she came to some conclusions on that very issue since that was a view she used to have as opposed to the view she has now that criticizes the former view as well as the view she has that talks about transforming certain aspects of white culture.

    You act like you missed this part:

    what was it these other cultures had… that she felt she lacked.

    Certainly the thing you mentioned about White Americans not knowing where their families came from isn’t something they feel African-Americans have that they don’t.

    they don’t see an identifiable, labeled “white culture” they can grab onto and embrace as their own

    You got this nebulous stuff sounding like White Nationalist (i.e. racist) rhetoric. What are you talking about? Get out of the abstract and talk about something real and/specific.

    Surely Tochluk had something to say beyond she merely exaggerated the idea that other cultures had something her’s didn’t. Certainly she believes there is such a thing as “white culture”, again, because there are aspects of it she wants to transform.

    Comment by nquest2xl — November 12, 2008 @ 5:10 am | Reply

  32. Again with the unwarranted “chickenshit.” You have a favorite word tonight!

    Get out of the abstract and talk about something real and/specific.

    I already have; if you missed it, that’s on you. I’m tired of repeating myself with someone who just doesn’t seem to get it. This isn’t about white nationalism. Obviously.

    Certainly the thing you mentioned about White Americans not knowing where their families came from isn’t something they feel African-Americans have that they don’t.

    Right–whoever said it is? Whites and African Americans aren’t the only two racial groups in America.

    Yes, the later Tochluk does apparently believe there probably is such a thing as white culture, but as I wrote in the comments about all of this on my blog, she also says that whether there is one or not is a “contested” issue. Not unlike the way, it seems, whether there really is such a cohesive thing as African American culture that all African Americans have ready an enthusiastic access to is also a contested issue.

    What you don’t seem to be getting is the distinction between the possibility of a real set of commonly held and enacted white practices, beliefs, mores, and so on, versus a common white inability to perceive much of anything that is commonly labeled as white culture. If the former actually is “white culture,” very few whites see it that way, and they don’t see something else as plain old, simply “white culture” either. And if something like an actual white culture includes things like repression, isolation, hyper-individualism and so on, then yes, Tochluk does apparently believe that these are aspects of it she wants to transform.

    Also, the issue here is not what other cultures actually are; it’s that white people commonly and wrongly perceive them in monolithic terms as this or that.

    Comment by macon d — November 12, 2008 @ 5:56 am | Reply

  33. you failed to answer the natural flowing question: why doesn’t Tochluk feel like there is a “white culture?”

    Any day will do, Macon. Whenever you decide you want to be about something more than chickenshit (warranted).

    And this “no white culture” stuff is nothing like the issues discussed/debated among African-Americans which, if anything, is a debate about what all fits into the category, not whether there is it exists or not. It’s stupid for you to even go there; oh, ye of “get used to blackness” fame. See, you’re one of those White folks yourself. You have these fucked up concepts about Black culture and Blackness.

    And this nonsense… “African American culture that all African Americans have ready an enthusiastic access…”

    A culture isn’t defined nor does it cease to exists on the basis of whether ALL individuals that could possibly belong to it have “ready and enthusiastic access” to it or not. You’re talking out your azz again.

    Those White people you mentioned who don’t know where their relatives are from, by definition, they don’t have “ready and enthusiastic access” to the culture in their ancestral homeland but that never made the culture in the homeland something didn’t exist because ALL its potential members didn’t have “ready and enthusiastic access” to it whether you’re talking about 1st generation immigrants from the old country or those several generations removed.

    So this IDIOTIC idea about “ALL” individuals in a group having to have “ready and enthusiastic access” is ridiculous, even for you.

    Comment by nquest2xl — November 12, 2008 @ 7:01 am | Reply

  34. >Why do such white Americans feel a sense of loss, you ask? Because, again, they don’t see an identifiable, labeled “white culture” they can grab onto and embrace as their own, and yet, other people do seem, to the white person, to have cultures that they’re embracing.

    This is nonenense.

    First, if you experience the feeling of loss it is independend of what other people have or not. If the loss is only realized in comparison to others, then it is something different, not a loss.

    When a Euro American feels a serious loss about his European heritage, the only healthy and also logic reaction would be to search one’s own roots. Trying to copy different cultures is something else but not a feeling about a loss of ‘white culture’.

    Comment by jwbe — November 12, 2008 @ 10:43 am | Reply

  35. and when you quote parts of T’s book without giving the whole picture you misrepresent her.
    And again, she doesn’t speak as if it is something of the past:
    “I know that I am not alone. I hear the same sentiments too much from other white people. If anything, this is one of the truest hallmarks of whiteness that I have yet encountered. There is a hole within many of us, created when our families gave up our culture in order to be successful in the United States.”

    Also this from her website:
    “We are right to be proud. We are right to celebrate the electlion of our country’s first African-American President as a message to the world that we have made tremendous gains.”

    Blinded by the white and regardless what you may think about her and her book, it seems to be a typical white book. Seriously.

    Comment by jwbe — November 12, 2008 @ 12:50 pm | Reply

  36. and another thought, this what many? whites consider as a “loss of culture” or “not having culture” they probably confuse it with self-identity.
    When some of our parent’s generation were hippies, some of us, the children, became punkers for example.
    It is about not sharing all of the same ideals or values and worldviews with the older generation and looking for a way through life which is authentic for one-self. Out of this individual struggle which is probably the struggle of almost every young person one forms his own identity and who he is in relation to the world.

    This is also the reason why culture isn’t static. Culture changes in many aspects, literature, art, music etc. Goethe may be considered as a German must read as an example for German literature, but he is boring as hell. Classical music has survived, nonetheless our time today doesn’t “produce” a second Vivaldi or Bach. Our generation modernizes Bach and Pachelbel and others.

    Comment by jwbe — November 12, 2008 @ 1:38 pm | Reply

  37. Macon D,

    Yes, the later Tochluk does apparently believe there probably is such a thing as white culture, but as I wrote in the comments about all of this on my blog, she also says that whether there is one or not is a “contested” issue.

    That Tochluk think that there is “probably” such a thing as white culture and that its existence “contested” is ludicrous. Most POC accept that there is white culture as a given, and even non-American white people accept that there is such a thing as American culture as a given (which is why a white European immigrant can’t instantly blend in with White Americans upon arrival).

    Not unlike the way, it seems, whether there really is such a cohesive thing as African American culture that all African Americans have ready an enthusiastic access to is also a contested issue.

    That this is “contested” as well is also ludicrous. Obviously, the answer is no.

    Comment by Restructure! — November 12, 2008 @ 1:52 pm | Reply

  38. Like I said, the truth finally came out:

    “What we need to transform is the white culture people speak of that is associated with segregated lives, isolation, disconnection, individualism, sanitization, arrogance, obliviousness, entitlement,”

    It’s obvious that the White people Macon describes (himself or others) are people who say there is “no white culture” because the things they associate with White culture are negative. That’s what the “enthusiastic” and “embrace” language is all about.

    Comment by nquest2xl — November 12, 2008 @ 2:44 pm | Reply

  39. something else Macon should explore when it comes to white Americans: The denial – what I don’t like does not exist. What I can’t glorify does not exist
    *rollmyeyes*

    Comment by jwbe — November 12, 2008 @ 2:56 pm | Reply

  40. Yes, JW, it was always a charade. An act of denial performed to deny things they don’t like or can’t glorify. Hypocrisy as a way of life, indeed.

    Comment by nquest2xl — November 12, 2008 @ 3:17 pm | Reply

  41. because you mention Yurugu, I have the book and I can agree up to now (what I read until now) with what she writes.

    Sometimes or often white Americans tend to simplify I think. One can “reject” (deny) all those parts of culture/history/present one doesn’t like, nonetheless it exists. It influences people’s lifes based on individual experiences etc., and I also think only if one is able or willing to see the entire picture one is also able to value the “exeptions” which are also part of our history. The quarter I live in for example is older than the city itself and has also a history of resistance. Eurocentrism and European/German culture may be the frame work of this country but as an individual I can make the choice with what I can identify (beyond a superficial classification), without denying the existance of culture I can’t identify with.

    Comment by jwbe — November 12, 2008 @ 4:54 pm | Reply

  42. [...] With that duly noted, casting doubt on the “no white culture” myth/belief/sentiment really isn’t what I wanted to do here.  What drove me to make this blog-post was the initial questions I posed and my rereading of the discussion we already had. [...]

    Pingback by Macon D: “White Americans don’t see something commonly called white culture.” « Stuff White People Say — November 14, 2008 @ 2:38 am | Reply

  43. White? As in White American? or English?. EIther way, I think white Americans can trace their ancestry back to Europe, just that many do not. There’s some sort of rivalry between the people of the two nations. If you think about it, many white Americans are of certain mixes, such as part Irish, part English, and what not. Their ancestry is just a bit more confusing because mixing is so common. In fact, I think white Americans have a very diverse cultural background. Other races, such as Asians, Africans, Mexicans, etc, have a more direct and obvious cultural background.

    Comment by Dard — December 6, 2008 @ 9:24 am | Reply

  44. Dard,

    No. You’re just assuming that white people are diverse and non-white people are homogenous, which is based on ignorance.

    Why do you think that “English” and “Irish” are different races (both are “British”), while thinking that whole continents like “Asia” are one race, that “Africa” is one race? Even Mestizos are mixed, Spanish (or other European) with indigenous American. African Americans usually have white ancestry, too.

    Comment by Restructure! — December 6, 2008 @ 3:15 pm | Reply

  45. So, what exactly is “white culture”?

    Comment by KV Fitz — February 6, 2009 @ 4:11 am | Reply

  46. @KV, Eurocentrism, religion, art etc.
    you should read stuffwhitepeopledo, lol, there you can read common white tendencies:-D

    Comment by jwbe — February 10, 2009 @ 8:07 pm | Reply

  47. I think what people (MaconD included) are trying to get at is this: this social construct “White Culture” cannot possibly be associated with anything positive. White culture, especially White American culture, is privilege, racism, oppression, nationalism, segregation, appropriation, colonialism, and a host of other despicable things. Throw that on top of a history of slavery. Who would want to identify with that?

    This is where the idea of racialized culture comes back to kick the asses of Whites who cling to it.

    (I am White, by the way.)

    Comment by lizard — July 3, 2009 @ 2:45 am | Reply

  48. It’s a valid point. Us whiteys have no identifiable culture to look back on, except those who pride themselves as Italian, French,or whatever. The fact that the blog’s author took what some snippet from a book and then slobbered drivel all over it until it is made to look like a racist comment is stupid. Racism works both ways (i.e. there is no “reverse-racism” like I hear so often). This blog’s title is racist and well… pretty stupid. Stuff white people say? There are a lot of us, and there is no generalization that can be had. There is no “thing” that we all say. If this blog were titled “things black people say” it would be tantamount to a hate crime.

    It’s pretty obvious to me what this is really about, and it relates to the statement the author so poorly analyzed. People need something to identify themselves with, something to make them stand out from the crowd. In some cases its religion, and people believe wholeheartedly in it because without their zeal in that area it would be obvious how lame and uninteresting their lives are. Next thing you know they’re screaming at college kids and telling them to go to hell because it gets them attention and recognition in an otherwise vapid and mundane life. This is the same thing with our author here. Nothing special, but hey! I can cling on to this concept of racism and ride it all the way to… blog superstardom. Now I’m deep. Now I’m really doing something important. Well actually you’re apparently reading whatever you want into whatever you read and using something somewhat similar to logic to come to your conclusions, which make you look very silly.

    What you’re really doing here is hurting your cause. Racism is despicable. It shouldn’t exist in this day and age, so long after the enlightenment. It stops many people from living acceptable lives. But you are marginalizing your plight by writing nonsense like this and making it seem as though it’s important. I know it makes you feel good. Good for you. You go ruffle them feathers. But why don’t you give attention to real racism instead of spewing out this kind of crap? When people address racism in the US today there are different sides. You are simply giving fuel to the wrong side of the racism argument. If you put up strong arguments, racists wouldn’t be able to belittle your cause because it is a good one. But you do put out crap like this and racists will cite is as the usual black man’s argument. I know. I said black man. I’m a racist.

    The only ones who could possibly take this seriously are other people like you who hinge their identity on being anti-racist. Only write when you have something worth writing. I know you’d be sad and lonely and miss the attention, but maybe you could spend that time thinking about other things besides racism.

    Comment by Indo-Europa — March 15, 2010 @ 8:30 pm | Reply

  49. @Indo-Europa, your stuff is a prime example of stuff white people say, lol

    Comment by jwbe — March 20, 2010 @ 10:52 am | Reply

  50. Great blog. Funny how the “race/ethnicity” categories change throughout the decades. I’m almost approaching 50 and currently I’m Mexican-American or Latino or Hispanic. On my birth certificate, however, I’m Caucasian, as are my parents. Go figure?

    Comment by Al Lopez — December 10, 2010 @ 4:39 pm | Reply

  51. @jwbe, Whats so funny, what he said made perfect sense and was dead on. Being half black, let me tell you this, your making an ass out of your self brother.

    Comment by Herpiousderious — April 28, 2011 @ 5:26 am | Reply

  52. Maybe, as others have noted, some white people feel rootless because they aren’t aware of their particular ancestry. White people come from many different countries, speak many different languages, and have different cultures. My husband is German-American and my ancestry is British and Jewish. I make sure that aspects of all of these identities are incorporated into our home life. I learned to speak German, I try to teach it to our kids, we eat German dinners some nights. And my children have a very strong Jewish identity.

    Comment by Ronit — June 1, 2011 @ 5:13 pm | Reply

  53. I would also like to add that people shouldn’t assume that all white Americans had slave-holders in their past. My husbands paternal family came here from Germany not too long ago. And his mother’s side includes a man who ran a station of the Underground Railroad on his farm in Indiana. It’s obnoxious to hold modernday white Americans responsible for something they had absolutely nothing to do with.
    My Jewish grandmother never sat around ranting about all those racist Egyptians who held her people as slaves thousands of years ago.

    Comment by Ronit — June 1, 2011 @ 5:20 pm | Reply

  54. This blog assumes everything a white person thinks or feels with regard to race and culture must somehow have it’s foundation in white privilidge, but hinges that on the bogus (and utterly irrelevant) argument that whites think anyone of non-caucasion appearance must be an “ethnic” an exotic “other” etc. Boring. He or she simply doesn’t think that white people should be moaning.

    “Why do such white Americans feel a sense of loss”
    The same reason most white British, most white Europeans and Australians/New Zealanders would perceive an absence – there appear to be no common values that extend beyond the superficial, (sport, pop culture, consumer culture) or beyond economic necessities (ie rule of law, property rights, by extension the nuclear family). Even within this there is nothing unique to “us” (those of Western European/British ancestry). What was lost are common cultural or religious practices that bind people togethor in a sense of community, and this probably began many generations ago with the conversion of pagan tribes to Christianity. Since most of us don’t practice Christiantiy any more, any sense of society originating from that is also history. The Industrial Revolution eroded what community remained, so we exist in an atomized, individualised society/culture where we don’t even know our neighbours (okay, okay, massive generalizations). So we look to recent immigrants and envy what they seem to have – religious/cultural identity and values that are unique to them, plus a greater sense of family and community.

    Comment by rdor — July 4, 2011 @ 6:40 am | Reply

  55. What the auther of the blog is trying to say, however badly, is that the acceptance of diverse European cultures combining under the symbolism of white skin colour and features forces other people into race cultures–something that doesn’t actually exist in reality or history. For example, alot of asian/indian/middle eastern/african cultures were and are intertwined even though they contain different races and have been for thousands of years.

    The Auther is upset that race culture is white culture and this is oblivious to “white” people. Saying that “white” people have lost their culture is nonsensical and ignores the reality of just how prevalant White culture and its effects have become in non race based cultures. The comunal gathering/sharing within ethnic communities that makes “white” people feel at a loss has less to do with other cultures being intact and much more to do with forced race conciousness around the world and amongst non European immigrants.

    Non European cultures are being eroded due to white culture, something which upsets alot of people, only to “white” people the dramatic rise in global race cultures is evidence of “ethnic” cultures being intact. Of all the irony …

    Comment by Hob — August 24, 2011 @ 11:18 pm | Reply

    • you straight dumb@ss..im from a country with none violant white culture! & im proud of wtf im from & my culture. unlike ur undisciplined people who go on porn films for money, & who always must have sex or french kiss or whatever u guys call it, in movies. ur culture began when u KILLED JESUSE! thats when u whites got demonized with the devils & invented guns to kill kill & kill gods true children. u envented everything alright..lol for the worst my dear..u made atomic bombs to murder the beautifull people of japan. u invented the guns to kill & take control of the iraqis n their beatifull culture religion etc. u white people just white every race to have n inforce ur white@ss none exotic culture to our beautiness none white cultures. u know something? this blog is right after all, WHITES HAVE NO CULTURE, but to sit up here n talk about other peoples culture..but what can u do when thats just a CULTURE WHITE!! whites =Donkey.

      Comment by YONAS — January 21, 2013 @ 8:04 pm | Reply

  56. I think this is leftwing hogwash. The white culture is top-notch and has infiltrated most of the world, and all other races are trying to copy us. I live in canada and I am mixed white race and I am very proud of my race. I think white people are the smartest and most attractive as a general rule. I find it funny to see some foreig races here trying to copy us and dress like us -its quite funny to see. Some of their countries did become westernized but it still us they are trying to copy. Now india and china are dong the same thing. White culture will never be eroder- look at the internet its mostly all white people, the internet was invented by white people, country music, rock music, must I continue??We are the superior race and have been for centuries. I do find that some races (the women in particular) appear jealous of white women, I would say some asian cultures and some black women (not all)..because their men would rather be with us than their own wome. In fact thats all u see in toronto is blonde girls with black guys!

    Comment by Janice — February 9, 2012 @ 12:42 pm | Reply

  57. Yes as commented above- not all white people who came to north america were rich and high class and slave owners. First of all canada never had any slaves! Blacks were free here! Secondly watch the white movie ‘ Far and Away’ to see how all the immigrants had to live when they came to america-all races were the same then! People did not have welfare, the irish were treated as bad as the blacks in alot of cases-they were not allowed to work as there was discrimination, there was no welfare etc. My grandfather could not settle in canada as irish immigrants were not allowed in canada at the time- he had to live in new jersey. So Im sick of hearing about the nonwhite hardships- lots of whites were very very poor including my nana (born in 1911) from nova scotia was almost starving with her family until they left and came to my birth city in 1920. She started working at age 9 as a nanny, housekeeper for a rich english family (she was acadian, the first settlers in canada)…..and alot of them were exterminated out of nova scotia and killed or drowned by the british- that is why the US has alot of them because this is where they relocated to, the ones who survived.(louisiana)…but its the chinese and japanese going after our govt for compensation-when acadians were treated the exact same.

    Comment by Janice — February 9, 2012 @ 12:53 pm | Reply

  58. This is American white culture:

    Invade, Kill, Rape and Conquer

    Comment by J.M — November 15, 2012 @ 3:46 am | Reply

  59. whites do have culture of their own, but their just too greedy & so they try to fit in whatever they like. or even worse they steal none white culture. how does one steal & make it their rooted culture? lol idk but i cant go to china & fall in love with their culture & so i gotta steal it & say this came from europe, when they should be saying this came from my dream..im not sayin humans shouldnt be tryin each others culture but stop urselfs if u fall to ur eurocentric dreams.i understand that whites wanna try everything before they leave earth, but this ones called identity theft. what i dont understand is, why do they think they dont have culture. they have it, but its different from most none whites. & not all race have similar cultures. i love white people but their rude most times. i try not to hate them, becuase its only the devil that drives them to do snakey evil doings.

    Comment by Anonymous — January 21, 2013 @ 7:35 pm | Reply

  60. LOL, I have not read through all posts but there seems to be a lot of talk about typical white people. What is a typical person ?. I am from a number backgrounds but mainly Scottish. The surprise background is Filipino ( great grandfather), am a typical white person ?.
    Should I not be allowed to seek any knowledge of the culture of my great grandfather ? Is it wrong to want experience it because I’m white?
    I guess I would be a typical white, trying to steal a Culture because I have none !
    I was born and raised in Australia, in my opinion the Australian culture is multiculturalism I have friends and even family members from all different types of cultural backgrounds and have had the pillage to partake in a number of cultural activities. Out of respect, not because I wish I had it.
    Also just like black people not whites are same they form the different backgrounds. A Scottish person does not like being called an Englishman. Anymore then Tongan does being called a Samoan.
    I know A WHITE Race did do some horrible things in the past which involved talking culture, land, ect. They even did it to other white races…
    Every race has its roots and culture regardless of color, stop hating take the time to ackloogde all, so we don’t keep losing the great culture that all our ancestors had,

    Comment by dont hate — December 22, 2013 @ 11:31 pm | Reply

  61. I’m not reading this post. It’s very ironic that you claim “Stuff white people say is racist.” When that in itself generalizes a race and is, in fact, racist. Excuse me exercising my rights by saying; Fuck you.

    Comment by Anon — March 27, 2014 @ 6:32 am | Reply


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