Stuff White People Say

October 6, 2008

“You are ganging up on him because he is white.”

Filed under: Uncategorized — Restructure! @ 11:23 pm

redcatbiker:

you and your other two partners (jw and Nquest) are bullies who need macon d, or a white boy like him, to gang up on, […]

I don’t know if redcatbiker is white, but it is typical for white people to think that POC are being mean to white people and targetting white people specifically because of their race.

I still don’t know what to think of redcatbiker’s additional complaints that our posts are:

  • “boring”
  • “academically written”
  • full of bitterness and hatred (?)
  • full of statistics (!)

Wow, redcatbiker thinks that if she’s not interested in it, it’s not important; that discussions about racism should not be complex; that we are bitter and hateful because we are still complaining about racism even when Macon D writes an antiracist blog; and that we should not talk about statistics.

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16 Comments »

  1. Restructure, I’m still shaking my head. Redcat’s comments are losers on every level. The “boring” tag is sophomoric. The “bitterness and hatred” idea is outrageously ridiculous and all the other stuff is anti-intellectualism at its hypocritical finest.

    “Academically written”…… Ummmm… There was that thread where one of the commenters asked aloud what could be done to breakdown the intellectual “jargon” used to describe various concepts/aspects of racism into “plain language” that would make the ideas more accessible. Apparently she (the commenter, can’t remember who it was), thought Macon’s blog, amongst others, were too “academically written” or jargon-laden.

    Imagine that.

    Comment by Nquest — October 7, 2008 @ 12:03 am | Reply

  2. When somebody can claim that he read so many Black intellectuals, studied racism for more than 12 years, visited the White Privilege Conference – this really sounds like just quoting the “must does” as an “anti-racist”. This sort of “credentials” Eurominds are so obsessed with, believing that this makes them experts while in reality they understand exactly nothing.

    Comment by jwbe — October 7, 2008 @ 7:40 pm | Reply

  3. macon’s blog is anything but academically jargony. His writing is very clear and accessible. What the hell are you talking about? Do you search for everything little tiny thing at “stuff white people do” to complain about? Why do you do that? No wonder people have labeled you a troll!

    jwbe, what do you do instead to be a white antiracist, other than these kinds of supposedly worthless things?

    Comment by gypsy rose — October 12, 2008 @ 3:14 pm | Reply

  4. GR, I will judge on my own what I consider as worthless or not.

    You still couldn’t tell me how Macon’s writing could influence your life that way, that you actually changed your attitude.
    And if you want to defend somebody you should be able to come up with facts and not just “his writing is clear”.
    Agreed, his writing is clear: clearly racist. So what’s your point?

    Comment by jwbe — October 12, 2008 @ 3:20 pm | Reply

  5. gypsy rose, you might want to read Nquest’s comment again. No where did he say that Macon’s comments were “academically jargony”, unclear or inaccessible. So, what the hell are you talking about?

    I guess some people tend to see/read what they want to fit the picture they have in their heads…

    Comment by Pyro — October 12, 2008 @ 3:49 pm | Reply

  6. Thank you, Pyro…

    And you’re right… People like GR get a certain picture in their head and everything they’ve learned about reading simple f-ckin’ English and comprehending it just leaves them or they just take leave of their senses.

    Damn!!

    How many times are you (GR) gonna come at me sniping and missing the life size target by……………………………………………… that much?

    So, after I was clear that a female poster whose name I couldn’t remember raised the “jargon” issue… when you Gypsy Rose make a response like that accusing me of complaining about “everything little tiny thing” at SWPD, I can only ask you, Gypsy Rose: WHY DO YOU DO THAT?

    Why do you always make a pure and utter fool of yourself swinging and missing every time?

    I know, I know… implicit in the gripe about me “complaining about everything little tiny thing” on Macon’s blog is the fact that I’ve obviously been so right about some very big and fundamental things I’ve questioned there and you don’t know how to deal with it so you just swing wildly hoping at least one of your wild azz punches in the dark land somewhere close to me.

    Not only are you a rookie but you’re a shadow boxer too. I am so underwhelmed.

    Comment by Nquest — October 12, 2008 @ 8:24 pm | Reply

  7. Oh yeah, big bad Nquest wins again! Sheesh, you’re such a poser. An udder fool, still smelling like mother’s milk. Look, you obviously agreed with that female poster. WHY DO YOU DENY THAT? As for your big and fundamental things, only in your mind, little man, only in your own mind. As for me and, obviously, just about everyone else who reads them, they’re exactly the opposite–little grubby gripes. At little tiny targets.

    jwbe: “You still couldn’t tell me how Macon’s writing could influence your life that way, that you actually changed your attitude.”

    I think I remember what you wrote about “stupid questions” on macon’s blog and how you don’t bother to answer them? What’s good for you is good for me.

    “Agreed, his writing is clear: clearly racist.”

    Yeah, as he says too, repeatedly. He’s raised white in America, and so IS RACIST. But his writing itself actually is clearly “anti-racist.” He’s writing against that training, in ways I and many others appreciate and learn from. And often feel affirmed by, and act differently because of.

    Comment by gypsy rose — October 12, 2008 @ 11:05 pm | Reply

  8. Look, you obviously agreed with that female poster. WHY DO YOU DENY THAT?

    No, I did not. I actually asked her to clarify what she was talking about. lol

    You just keep on swinging and missing… this BIG bad Nquest target. Let me go find that thread to give you a friendly dose of my signature STFU! lol

    Comment by nquest2xl — October 12, 2008 @ 11:19 pm | Reply

  9. Here it is: http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2008/06/start-conversations.html

    In that (original) START CONVERSATIONS thread, Annie said, in part:

    Macon, I’d love to see some conversation on how white people deflect their own racism by using big ivory-tower language to demean, isolate, and condescend to other people (including other white people) in conversations about race and racism. Before being indoctrinated into academia-speak I was probably still able to talk about these issues, but I would have been shut out of discussions because I couldn’t out-syllable the liberal arts grads. *snip*

    So how do we arrive at a plain language conversation on racism that is humble and free of academic one-upmanship?

    Nquest initial question: When and where [has] this occurred?
    After Annie’s response, Nquest continued:

    Annie, what you said is all well and good but, in the spirit of supporting evidence or even an example of inaccessible language… Well, you’ve yet to point it out, unless I missed something.

    It would help if you would readily point that out and, since you write from a working class perspective, then it’s seems incumbent on you, first and foremost, to use such plain language yourself instead of making unsupported claims about others using language that’s too academic.

    The title of this blog is Stuff White People Do. Can’t get much more plain spoke than that.

    Case. Point. Game. Set. Match.

    Gypsy Rose, you simply didn’t know what the f-ck you were talking about (or didn’t care). You just wanted to tell BIG BAD Nquest how much you just… you just… Well, you’ll have to think of another excuse for why you like to make a fool out of yourself because you can’t deal with the things I’ve said.

    Now it’s question answering time.

    1. When you knew you were too confused to actually read the plain f-ckin in my initial post, WHY DID YOU DO IT? i.e. why did you say something that was bound to be corrected?

    2. When you were corrected and given a chance to stay in hiding, WHY DID YOU DO IT? i.e. why did you come back, make another bogus statement that…. was bound to be corrected?

    Seriously, WHY DO YOU DO IT? What are you a glutton for punishment? Well, the first thing you should have learned is that I love to oblige people. If you want to make a fool out of yourself, why should I deny you the opportunity?

    Oh and I like to call bluffs, too. I guess that’s what makes me “BIG BAD Nquest.”
    Your bluff: “why do you deny that?” roflmao

    Comment by nquest2xl — October 12, 2008 @ 11:37 pm | Reply

  10. Yeah, as he says too, repeatedly.

    Which is all the more reason why the things I’ve noted were justified.

    He’s writing against that training

    Ummm… The points the writers here have made were made not because Macon was “writing against that training.” Instead, the points we made were made because he was writing with a mental pen with ink from that training.

    He’s writing… in ways I and many others appreciate and learn from. And often feel affirmed by

    That’s all well and good but you’re talking about you and “many others.” I wish you would be clear about who you’re talking about. That would actually further this discussion. But the real issue here is: People of color have no obligation to turn a blind eye to Macon’s “racism” or poorly formed ideas about race/racism just because you and “many [racially unidentified] others” learn from him and often “feel affirmed.”

    Quite frankly (and quite obviously) we don’t feel affirmed by his “racism.” What part of that don’t you understand? What part of that makes you so immature and insecure when we speak from our perspective? It stands to reason, even by Macon’s own platitudes, that we frankly don’t have the same learning curve you and “many others” apparently do. So what you “learn” from and happen to be “affirmed” by… by and large does nothing for us. So why are you upset that we don’t view Macon’s blog the way you do?

    We definitely have no obligation to turn a blind eye to Macon’s “racism” when he felt free to espouse his ill-formed racial views in thread like:

    “shake hands our way”
    “get used to blackness”
    “believe others consider them trustworthy”
    “express amazement when non-white people see them as “white”

    Indeed, what you learn from Macon is immaterial and, therefore, largely irrelevant (aka off-the-point) to the points we’ve made. Until and unless you can make a relevant point about what we’ve said on those threads that supports your perception of us and this idea that the points we’ve made on those threads are worthy of the characterizations you’ve made about us.

    Your conduct on this thread shows how your issues with us and particularly with me is misguided and misdirected. And I’m still waiting for you to say something that makes sense with regards to Macon’s “racism” on the thread we discussed previously where he made untenable assumptions about White Republicans with absolutely no reason other than his own “racism” or pre-judging attitude about ALL Whites which was part of the problem with his still unsupported idea about in “express amazement” thread.

    ______________________________________________________

    EDITED: To include Macon’s standard platitude along with a revealing aside, in his own words…

    “…as white observers of whiteness repeatedly acknowledge, in what has become a sort of reflexive mantra, non-white observers of whiteness (especially African American ones) have already said most of what current white observers have to say about it. (They also commonly acknowledge that it sucks big-time that white folks are willing to listen more attentively to white commentators saying the same damn things about whiteness that non-white commentators have already tried to get them to hear.) “

    As you say, he writes “in ways I and many others appreciate and learn from.” Imagine that.

    Comment by nquest2xl — October 13, 2008 @ 12:17 am | Reply

  11. And you know what’s funny? Here you are (Gypsy Rose) commenting in a thread where the idea that we “are ganging up on him because he is white” is being discussed and you haven’t said a word about it.

    It’s funny and ironic because you didn’t feel the need to make the kind of curious distinction you felt compelled to make the first time you showed up. You never effectively explained what accounted for Macon’s differential responses to me vs. Restructure. And that’s so curious because you wanted to deny that it had something to do with me being Black even as you continue to rehearse this line about Macon admitting he’s “racist.”

    Seems to me people who are “racists” react in “racist” ways to people of a different race and, historically, there has always been a hierarchy… That’s been my point based on the clear observations I’ve made and it’s a point that remains unchallenged by your erratic, wild swinging and missing technique.

    Comment by nquest2xl — October 13, 2008 @ 12:40 am | Reply

  12. Yeah, as he says too, repeatedly. He’s raised white in America, and so IS RACIST. But his writing itself actually is clearly “anti-racist.” He’s writing against that training, in ways I and many others appreciate and learn from. And often feel affirmed by, and act differently because of.

    being racist is not just some behavior but a mind-set. It reflects a certain attitude which can’t be separated from somebody’s writing. A racist can’t write anti-racist because his racist mind-set will get in the way. It will come out and who are you to judge, as a racist by yourself as you admitted, what in Macon’s writing is anti-racist or not.
    He may write sometimes “against” this training, but sometimes, as Nquest already said, his training to be a racist can’t hide behind his attempts or whatever to be “anti-racist”.
    I tell you one thing, I am also white and you don’t have to come up with some sort of excuses for racist behavior the style like “sorry that I am white and therefore racist, it’s just the training”. You are no roboter, you are responsible for all your own actions and for every word which comes out of your mouth. You are responsible for every negative thought you might have about PoC, because it is you, and only you with control about your own self. There is no outside force which forces you to be racist. There is no way to praise oneself by “I am just learning, so don’t criticize my racist thoughts etc.”, because if you want to “untrain” yourself, you have to know, WHAT you have to “untrain”.

    But back to Macon’s alleged anti-racist writing: The “training” goes that white is always right and that whites can make weird assumptions about Black people.

    In his thread “Shake hands our way” Macon writes:
    “Obviously, many African American men in particular have other ways of putting their hands together, and other racial groups do as well (though I’ll admit, I don’t know what forms the latter take).”
    […]
    “What’s more interesting, though, about differences in handshaking techniques is that if a white and a non-white person encounter each other in a casual setting and decide to clasp hands, there may be uncertainty about which handshaking method to use–the one that’s become the standard, “white” one, or a common non-white one.”
    […]
    “The non-white person often represses a preferred method of contact, and the white person feels little if any discomfort about being the enforcer of a standard.”
    http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2008/04/shake-hands-their-way_09.html

    On this site here there is the thread “African American men don’t shake hands like that”
    https://stuffwhitepeoplesay.wordpress.com/2008/07/19/african-american-men-dont-shake-hands-like-that/

    Nquest said to Macon’s statement:
    “The idea that Black people (which Macon wants to stretch into ALL non-white people) are repressing anything is baseless. It’s based on the unfounded idea that Blacks would “prefer” to shake White people’s hands the way they shake Black people’s hands.”

    So you would say Macon is the expert in what Black people prefer and think, because he is “anti-racist”? And Nquest is no expert despite the fact that he is Black? His statement is something you can overlook because? Because?

    Comment by jwbe — October 13, 2008 @ 3:12 pm | Reply

  13. Nquest said to Macon’s statement:
    “The idea that Black people (which Macon wants to stretch into ALL non-white people) are repressing anything is baseless. It’s based on the unfounded idea that Blacks would “prefer” to shake White people’s hands the way they shake Black people’s hands.”

    To GR’s chagrin, I’m obliged to say, “MY LOGIC IS FLAWLESS!”

    If it’s not, I’d like to see GR explain (1) how Macon knows something so intimate as the thoughts Black people have when they shake White people’s hand; (2) how Macon determined what Black people’s preferred handshake is in interracial settings; and (3) what African-American sources exploring the serious topic of how “repressed” Black feel in interracial handshake settings Macon consulted/considered.

    Those are all questions about how Macon came to logically construct his idea and come to the conclude what he did. None of that requires him to Black but, for his idea to have any credibility, we have to know that he actually got this idea from some place other than his own mind since he’s making an explicit claim about what Blacks think or “prefer” in this situation.

    On Macon’s blog, I raised similar “how do you know; how can you say” questions when Macon suggested that at least someone out of a group of 5 white Republicans had to have overcome some degree of racial prejudice they have/had to be Obama supporters/voters. Simple modification of the three questions above show how I’ve applied the same logical test across the board, above and beyond claiming “I’m Black and I know Black people and you don’t” and reductive-assumption that lead Macon and GR to try to assert Macon’s racial bonafides by claiming “I’m/he’s White and knows, you’re not, so you don’t.”

    So, Gypsy Rose please explain:

    (1) how Macon knows something so intimate as the racial thoughts of that very self-selected of a mere 5 white Republicans AND specifically those 5 white Republicans;

    (2a) how does Macon determine FROM THE VIDEO HE POSTED that those 5 white Republicans, at least some of them, had to overcome racial prejudice they have/had to support Obama…

    (2b) when THE VIDEO HE POSTED revealed nothing that suggests that any of those 5 white Republicans harbor the specific racial prejudice that would otherwise stop them from voting for a Black president Obama (and I’m saying there’s all kinds out there that people can have their own customized set); and

    (3) what actual sources of information does Macon have about those 5 white Republicans, from people who know them or, hell, sources that translate any possible coded language those 5 white Republicans used in the video or anywhere else… what sources like that did Macon consult/consider.

    Comment by nquest2xl — October 13, 2008 @ 4:10 pm | Reply

  14. This stereotyping certain groups of whites would be a new topic, because it helps the United States of Amnesia to remain in their illusions. The forgotten slavery in the North, the participation of the North in slavery, etc. Nah, it’s so much easier to find somebody/something to blame, the South, or the Republicans, or the “real racists” white supremacists etc. European mind-set is othering again, which helps the “good ones” to disconnect so conveniently from the inconvenient truth of the system of white supremacy.

    Comment by jwbe — October 13, 2008 @ 5:45 pm | Reply

  15. […] to a Macon-defender, Gypsy Rose… JWBE made the following quip: “if you want to defend somebody you should be able to come up with facts and not just “his […]

    Pingback by “You’re trying to make me out to be a racist…” « Stuff White People Say — November 17, 2008 @ 7:21 pm | Reply


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